If you want, you can just answer the question in the comment section and then read the rest of this post after you have written your individual answer.
Here are the questions:
What is pride and presumption and what is faith and presumption?
How do you know the difference?
My first answer:
Pride is of man. It is selfishness. It is the usual presumption of man that "he" is the center of "his" (or the) universe.
Faith is of God. It is giving. We love God because He first loved us. Jesus is the evidence of that love. There is no greater love than for a Man to give His life for his friends! God is the center (and Creator) of the universe to the individual who has faith.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for - the evidence of things not seen. Jesus Christ's life, death on the cross, and resurrection to life is a fact of history. He has given us the hope that surpasses all understanding. We KNOW we can trust Him because he has kept all of his promises. We can trust Him with our very lives for all of eternity. What a great God we love and serve!
Sothenes responded:
Pride came from Satan in my opinion and pride is presumptuous. I was listening to pastor(s) describe pride and by doing so he was making his own definition up through descriptions. When he said that pride was presumptuous I started to think about it and I've been hard pressed to study it in full on my own but I think that pride is the reverse image of faith.
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Pride is found in Genesis 3:5 that we could trust in ourselves and be like God.
Faith is presumptuous as well:
Matthew 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
According to Jerry, "..pride is our own faith in ourselves, trusting ourselves. Faith is Christ's faith in God knowing his good, acceptable, and perfect will."
I saw a partial picture or part of gospel and learned the gospel all over again in that. Pride is trusting in our selves and our merit and faith is trusting in what He can do.
1 John 2:16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
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Pride causes unbelief
Well said, Sothenes.
I can kind of agree with your opinion that pride came from Satan. He certainly was in God's presence before we were created, and the pride Lucifer had in himself - wanting to be "god" rather than his proper place of worshipping God - caused his fall.
However, Satan can only tempt us into a prideful state. Once we get a hold of pride in ourselves - we own it!
The following is very true:
Quote:
"pride is our own faith in ourselves, trusting ourselves."
Pride causes unbelief.
Not to get too political here in this thread, but when I read that Proverb you posted I instantly thought of Obama.
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
I have been taken to task (by some - especially Christians) for not being "respectful" of Obama at my blog as the occupant in the Oval office. It is because of all the reasons listed in that Proverbs verse that I can't respect the man - at all! He has shown himself as the epitome of those five negative qualities. He has never shown a fear (reverence) of the LORD. That is his sixth mistake. Therefore, I cannot respect a man like that - not ever!
While reading through the new September issue of Turning Points magazine and devotional - "A Stone's Throw Away" - I couldn't help but relate the David and Goliath "big talkers" essay to Obama's propaganda machine that is currently trying to thwart the efforts of the TEA Party patriots and the Town Hall meeting participants who are vehemently against ObamaSCARE HELLcare.
Most know the story of David and Goliath. Goliath taunted the Israelites for forty days, challenging them to go to battle with him and the Philistine army. While the Israelites trembled in their boots and turned down the invitation, David shows up and couldn't believe what he saw. One giant man intimidating the entire Israelite army!
What do we have today? One ObamaFRAUD intimidating a nation of patriots!
David Jeremiah writes:
What did Goliath bring to the table? Words, size, and attitude - that's
it. And that pretty much describes intimidation.
But Obama is slick. He allows his cohorts (SEIU, ACORN etc.) to do the intimidation. Behind the scenes (and, unfortunately, under the radar of most of the Lamestream Media of Mass Deception), Obama (through Axelrod and Soros) is manipulating the masses with his mis-information campaign.
Today, Glenn Beck had two separate recordings of Obama where he claimed one view on one, and then the exact opposite in the second recording. To an audience of SEIU members, Obama stated SPECIFICALLY that he wants the "single payer" option which would ultimately end health care in this nation as we know it and put it under a government bureaucracy that would end up (as history in other countries has shown) RATIONING health care.
Guess which people would get the short end of the stick? The very young (infants) and the elderly. Don't believe me? Watch the Glenn Beck Program and see the types of people who are "advising" Obama on health care. It's quite a scary group of loons!
So, what do we have here? We have absolute proof that Obama IS LYING about his plans for health care reform. HE'S LYING!!!
This guy has lied so much that it is difficult to keep track of them all. However, THIS PARTICULAR LIE has awakened the sleeping giant of formerly non-political citizens who are now sounding the alarm across the country about the terrible consequences our nation would face if ObamaSCARE HELLcare passes.
Dr. Jeremiah writes:
His Words: Jesus said this about Satan: "He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. when he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resourced, for he is a liar and the father of it" (John 8:44).
In other words, "Lying" is Satan's native language. Whatever he says about anything is not to be believed.
People, Obama is LYING TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE! He has been doing this during the campaign and all the months that he has been in office! Who can trust such a blatant, out and out liar??
Now, you may be wondering why I am relating the David and Goliath story to our current governmental turmoil that has been unleashed by Obama and his evil cohorts. It is for the purpose of telling you that the tough talk of this intimidator (Obama) is, as Dr. Jeremiah relates in his article: "as they say in Texas, 'He's all hat and no cattle' when it comes to backing up his talk in the presence of God."
People who know God and his Son, Jesus Christ - are NOT BEING FOOLED by this LIAR!
Dr. Jeremiah is discussing Satan here, but you CAN apply it to men who are liars, too:
It doesn't matter how big The Intimidator is. If you are submitted to God and resist Satan's advances, he will flee from you. Jesus resisted him three times with the truth of Scripture in the wilderness, and Satan left Him (Matthew 4:1-11).
His Attitude: Satan, like Goliath (and Obama), talks tough. In fact, he "walks about like a roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8).
I think that Obama has so much more power in his lies because the Lamestream Media is refusing to do its job! They are "in the tank" for Obama (just like the Philistine army that was behind Goliath) and they will defend him no matter what he does.
However, the TRUTH is coming out BIG TIME and the PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP OUT OF THEIR FORMER STUPOR and are turning against Obama.
We need to keep praying people - because slowly but surely, our prayers are being answered.
Those of us who are armed with the truth of God (see...it doesn't take guns!) - "the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God" (Ephesians 6:17) - you can take ANY intimidator down.
As David Jeremiah writes:
Remember: Tough talk does not a victory make. God's truth will always defeat Satan's [Christine: and Obama's] lies.
We need to defeat this spiral into Marxism. Many of the young people who will be voting for the very first time in the next election weren't alive when the Soviet Union was in existence. They don't know about the dangers and harm of "Socialism." They have not been taught about the true founding of this nation!
Many college professors are Marxists themselves! They are now in their "glory;" thinking that the George Soros & David Axelrod - led Obama is going to change this nation into a communist regime!
Don't let that happen!
I have been listening to Glenn Beck's program on the radio. I also recommend that you watch or record his T.V. program on Fox News each day as well. His program is where you will get news that no one else in the media is covering!
He has encouraged people to go to his website and read what he is uncovering day by day that the MSM is either not reporting - or is mis-reporting (as they often twist his words and meaning and label him a "crazy.") He is also encouraging you to write letters to the younger generation - warning them about the perils of communism. He also encouraged us to write down the TRUTH about our nation's founding and share it with young people who are not learning it in the dumbed down public schools!
Through it all, remember this. As a believer in our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, God is with you through it all!
Now, more than ever before, you need to heed these Bible verses:
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8
The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9
Hat Tips:
Sothenes at Talk Wisdom message forum.
Glenn Beck.com