This morning, it was my initial intent to search around for some of the best articles that critique the answers given by Barack Obama and John McCain after Saturday's T.V. broadcast. I found this one and encourage everyone to read it.
However, I feel led to discuss what is heavy on my heart and has been in my thoughts over the past two days regarding the issue of the pro-life vs. pro-death (a.k.a. abortion) worldviews - which obviously separate these candidates.
I must ask a question. For those of you who have seen it, what did you think of Obama's answer to "at what point does a baby get human rights in your view" question?
Portion of transcript:
"Is above my [his] pay grade"???4 NOW, LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION. 40 MILLION
5 ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V. WADE. YOU KNOW, AS A PASTOR I
6 HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL OF THE TIME. ALL OF THE
7 PAIN AND ALL OF THE CONFLICTS. I KNOW THIS IS A VERY
8 COMPLEX ISSUE. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS. AT WHAT POINT
9 DOES A BABY GET HUMAN RIGHTS IN YOUR VIEW?Obama's answer:
10 A. WELL, I THINK THAT WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT
11 IT FROM A THEOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE OR A SCIENTIFIC
12 PERSPECTIVE, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WITH SPECIFICITY,
13 YOU KNOW, IS ABOVE MY PAY GRADE
Obama went on and on trying to justify THAT PARTICULAR ANSWER.
What are Talk Wisdom readers thoughts on his answer? What do you think he genuinely meant by that phrase? Do you think that came from his own thoughts or was it a line given to him by his campaign to use? I have my own thoughts about it, but will post it later.
I will mention one thing, however. How ironic is it that Obama shared his views at the forum that he sees child abuse (by parents) as an evil in the world; yet when asked about "when does a baby get human rights" he justifies killing children in the womb? Isn't that a logical inconsistency - especially when he professes to be a Christian? There were MANY inconsistencies in Obama's answers. Were you able to pick them out?
For anyone who wishes to view the forum videos, or, read the entire transcript, see links below.
Click on this link to view several videos of the event.
Click on this link to read the entire transcript.
Please share your thoughts about what you read (or viewed) about this event.
I thought that John McCain's Vietnam prisoner/guard story that was shared at the forum was very riveting. It gave me a better glimpse into his worldview and Christian faith.
Excerpt of John McCain's experience from the transcript:
20 A VIETNAMESE KEPT US IN PRISON IN CONDITIONS OF
21 SOLITAIRY CONFINEMENT FOR TWO OR THREE TO A CELL. THEY
22 DID THAT BECAUSE THEY KNEW THEY COULD BREAK DOWN OUR
23 RESISTANCE. ONE OF THE TECHNIQUES THAT THEY USED TO GET
24 INFORMATION WAS TO TAKE ROPES AND TIE THEM AROUND YOUR
25 BICEPS, PULL YOUR BICEPS BEHIND YOU, LOOP THE ROPE AROUND
1 YOUR HEAD, PULL YOUR HEAD DOWN BETWEEN YOUR KNEES AND
2 LEAVE YOU IN THAT POSITION. YOU CAN MANAGE, IT'S VERY
3 UNCOMFORTABLE. ONE NIGHT I WAS BEING PUNISHED IN THAT
4 FASHION. ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DOOR OF THE CELL OPENED, THE
5 GUARD CAME IN, A GUY WHO WAS JUST WHAT WE CALL A GUN
6 GUARD. HE JUST WALKED AROUND THE CAMP WITH A GUN ON HIS
7 SHOULDER. HE WENT LIKE THIS AND THEN HE LOOSENED THE
8 ROPES. HE CAME BACK ABOUT FOUR HOURS LATER, HE TIGHTENED
9 THEM UP AGAIN AND LEFT. THE FOLLOWING CHRISTMAS, BECAUSE
10 IT WAS CHRISTMAS DAY, WE WERE ALLOWED TO STAND OUTSIDE OF
11 OUR CELL FOR A FEW MINUTES, AND THOSE DAYS WE WERE NOT
12 ALLOWED TO SEE OR COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER ALTHOUGH WE
13 CERTAINLY DID. AND I WAS STANDING OUTSIDE FOR MY FEW
14 MINUTES, OUTSIDE MY CELL. HE CAME WALKING UP. HE STOOD
15 THERE FOR A MINUTE AND WITH HIS HANDLE ON THE DIRT IN THE
16 COURTYARD HE DREW A CROSS AND HE STOOD THERE AND A MINUTE
17 LATER, HE RUBBED IT OUT AND WALKED AWAY. FOR A MINUTE
18 THERE, THERE WAS JUST TWO CHRISTIANS WORSHIPPING TOGETHER.
19 I'LL NEVER FORGET THAT MOMENT SO EVERY DAY ---
Personally, I thought that Rick Warren's non-reaction to this awesome story was quite insulting. Also, notice that he cut off John's answer!! Did he do that with Obama? I'm not sure. I haven't seen the entire video yet. But the segments that I did watch of Obama looked as though he was allowed to ramble on and on. So why was John McCain cut off??
Of course, I was glad about the next topic and John's excellent answer - and he received a HUGE round of applause from the audience, too!
20 Q ALL RIGHT. LET'S GO INTO THE TOUGH ONES. THAT
21 WAS JUST A GIMMIE. LET'S DEAL WITH ABORTION.
I, AS A 22 PASTOR, HAVE TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL THE TIME, EVERY
23 DIFFERENT ANGLE, EVERY DIFFERENT PAIN, ALL THE DECISIONS
24 AND ALL OF THAT. 40 MILLION ABORTIONS SINCE ROE V WADE.
25 SOME PEOPLE WHO -- PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT LIFE BEGINS AT
1 CONCEPTION WOULD SAY THAT'S A HOLOCAUST FOR MANY PEOPLE.
2 AT WHAT POINT IS A BABY ENTITLED TO HUMAN RIGHTS?
John McCain's answer was absolute, truthful, and given without hesitation or excuses (unlike Obama's ):
3 A AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. I HAVE A 25-YEAR
4 PRO LIFE RECORD IN THE CONGRESS, IN THE SENATE. AND AS
5 PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I WILL BE A PRO LIFE
6 PRESIDENT AND THIS PRESIDENCY WILL HAVE PRO LIFE POLICIES.
7 THAT'S MY COMMITMENT, THAT'S MY COMMITMENT TO YOU.
HT: Kingdom People
Online Newsroom
Doug Patton article
*******
Update at 11:05 a.m. PT -
I just located the "official Civil Forum" website and noticed what was written there:
The Saddleback Civil Forum series was established to promote civil discourse and the common good of all. The first forum, held during Passover week this year, featured five Jewish World War II Holocaust survivors sharing their stories. In September, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair will be featured.
Although Rick Warren’s primary calling is to proclaim the Gospel Truth of salvation in Jesus Christ, he created the Civil Forums to further three additional life goals: helping people accept responsibility, helping the Church regain credibility, and encouraging our society to return to civility.
Also, notice that there is NOTHING included in the "PEACE" plan with regards to the Great Commission command given by Jesus Christ before His ascension to the Father to "go into all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Notice that Jesus emphasizes "what I [He] has commanded you [us]!!"
Here is what purpose-driven Saddleback seems to think is more important:
Recognizing their far-reaching influence, the Warrens are working together, along with churches, businesses and NGOs, to mobilize 1 billion Christians to fight the five global giants of the world through The P.E.A.C.E. Plan –Promote reconciliation, Equip servant leaders, Assist the poor, Care for the sick and Educate the next generation.
This is all well and good. I am NOT CLAIMING THAT SUCH PROMOTION IS NOT GOOD. However, to NOT HAVE ANY MENTION of evangelism through the Gospel and PROMOTE REPENTANCE THROUGH THE Cross of Jesus Christ is certainly alarming!!!
It is reminiescent of the New Age goal to create a kind of utopia here on earth.
Jesus told us that we would always have the poor with us.
Mar 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Of course it is a good thing to help the poor. However, what good is helping them physically if we are not sharing the Cross of Christ so that they will be saved and enter into eternity with God forever??
Jesus told us that in this world, we would have trouble.
Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Obviously, Jesus' emphasis is on the fact that he is King of kings, Lord of lords, and Savior of the entire world. He, and he alone has "overcome the world." Doesn't that indicate that evangelism through the Great Commission commandment is more important than any other endeavor that the Church does?
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Good works come second, as a result of being saved!
What did Jesus emphasize as most important in this life?
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?