Sodium Saints

In late October, a new commentator arrived at this blog and chastised me in the comment section for my post against Obama entitled Talk Wisdom Reports - You Decide: White House Scandal to Break Soon?

Donna60 wrote:

donna60 said...
I understand that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian believes that the bible has to be obeyed. As a member of the "restoration movement." I cannot have any other authority on earth that supercedes scripture. That being said, no person who believes in and lays their hopes in the perfection and completeness of NT scripture, can trash-talk our president or any lawfully elected leader of our United States. Romans 13:1-2 "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves."

1 Peter 2:17 "Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king."

October 28, 2010 8:21:00 AM PDT

You can follow the rest of the comments here.

Now, although Donna60 ended up veering a bit off topic, she certainly had a lot of good and correct things to say. However, I don't think that she handled her position about "governing authorities" in the biblical way.

For example. Paul points out that we have both a duty to obey governing authorities when they are following God's laws and not to obey when evil is being proposed by them. As Christian believers we have the duty to disobey when any leader is involved in immoral behavior or governing practices.

As Donna60 had pointed out, Paul DID instruct Christians in Rome to "be subject to the governing authorities" (Romans 13:1) and to pay their taxes. Those who disobey the state, he wrote, resist "the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves" (Romans 13:2).

The kind of "judgment" rendered could include the temporal kind (i.e. punishment while here on this earth); or, the eternal type (i.e. White Throne Judgment in eternity) at the culmination of all history.

However, what I think was sorely missing in Donna60's arguments in the comment thread is the fact that the Bible also demonstrates that unrighteous decrees are not to be obeyed. For example, recall that the Hebrew midwives feared God more than the king of Egypt so they disobeyed his murderous and absolutely cruel order to kill all newborn Hebrew boys. God blessed them for disobeying this evil leader's mandate and as a result, note what happened: "And so it was, because the midwives feared God, that He provided households for them" (Exodus 1:21).

When I read Donna60's reply, her belief that evil dictators like Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, and Mao "should be obeyed" shocked me! It was then that I realized that she was making a common mistake that Christians sometimes do (been there, done that!) while reading the Bible. She took one Bible verse (Romans 13:2) and applied it incorrectly to mean that in ALL instances, one should obey one's leader of the state. That is NOT what the Bible tells us!

I am currently reading a little booklet that has been given out by Coral Ridge Ministries called "Ten Truths About Christians and Politics." Truth #3 discusses that the Bible gives guidance for governments and citizens. The following excerpt gives specific Bible verses and commentary that upholds my position in this discussion:

Shortly after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, Jewish authorities grew troubled at the growth of His followers and strictly instructed Peter and the other apostles against teaching about Christ. The apostles refused, telling the high priest, "We ought to obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).

Along with the duty to disobey unrighteous commands, the Bible indicates that God's people have a duty to control political authorities who stray from God's moral standard. The Old Testament often recounts how the prophets confronted the Jewish monarchs with God's verdict upon their unrighteous behavior. The prophet Samuel announced God's judgment on Kin Saul for his disregard of God's word to him (1 Samuel 15:22-23). Elijah challenged wicked King Ahab over his Baal worship and was called the "troubler of Israel" for his effort (1 Kings 18:17). Nathan confronted David for his sin with Bathsheba and the murder of her husband, Uriah (2 Samuel 12).

Besides confronting evil and refusing to go along with it, there is another role outlined for the saints in both the Old and New Testament - to be "salt and light." God, through Jeremiah, told the Jewish exiles in Babylon to "seek the peace of the city where I have caused you to be carried away captive, and pray to the Lord for it; for in its peace you will have peace" (Jeremiah 29:7). The exiles were not to withdraw from their ungodly environment into a cultural enclave, but rather to seek its peace or shalom - a Hebrew term also translated as "welfare."

Sodium Saints

Jesus calls his people to be like salt in their influence on the world around them (Matthew 5:13). Just as salt was used in first century Israel to flavor and preserve food or to cleanse wounds, Christ's followers are to bring the flavor of God's grace and the healing and preserving power of His Word into every area of life - including the world of politics.

It is important to remember that when salt is used to cleanse wounds, it stings! When Jesus calls us to be "salt" in this world, I'm sure that pointing out the fact that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" stings the heart, soul, mind and body of every person who then comes to the realization that his/her need to confess sin and repent (turn away) of them HURTS.

But the healing power of the Gospel is worth the initial pain brought to the minds of those who humble themselves before the cross of Christ at Calvary. Our pain is NOTHING compared to the pain and suffering that Christ endured for our sakes on that cross.

Being a Christian often means that not everyone is going to like you. In fact, Jesus warns us that many will hate you (us) because "they first hated Him."

We cannot shy away and shrink away from our Christian duty in the world of politics because people will hate us for speaking out against the evil, sin and death that is often imposed upon us by the unbelievers in this world. We are to stand up and share the truth!

Ephesians 6 instructs us on how to prepare ourselves for this type of spiritual battle. Whenever someone challenges me for my beliefs and how, when or why I share them at this blog I remember these verses:

Eph 6:6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,


Eph 6:7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men,

Ephesians 6 tells us to arm ourselves with:

* The belt of truth girded around your waist.

* The breastplate of righteousness.

* Shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace.

* Above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

* And take the helmet of salvation.

* And the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Prepared with such equipment we also need to be:


Eph 6:18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—


Eph 6:19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,


Eph 6:20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

Hat Tips:

Coral Ridge Ministries

Blue Letter Bible

A "Therapist in the Pulpit" Goes Bankrupt

While reading several different blog posts from my sidebar list today, I found one that shared the story about Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral ministry going bankrupt. Albert Mohler.com: Bankruptcy in the Cathedral.

Schuller's techniques of preaching a "prosperity gospel" rather than the true Gospel of redemption through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary reminds me of Joel Osteen's "ministry." Any time that I have seen Osteen "preach," it has been that familiar prosperity gospel theme devised to make his audience feel better about themselves and "give them a lift." The trouble is, both Schuller and Osteen were not following the mandate of The Great Commission that Jesus Christ gave to his disciples and all who would follow Him. Any church that doesn't make the truth contained in God's Word, the Bible, and the Cross of Christ central to their teaching, should be avoided!!

The following excerpt is very telling about Dr. Schuller's ministry techniques:

“Possibility Thinking” was Schuller’s central message. He told his fellow preachers not to worry about repeating themselves in sermons, insisting that every message (he did not like to call his messages “sermons”) must be about the development of a positive mental outlook.

Though ordained in the Reformed Church in America, Schuller minimized historic Christian orthodoxy and stressed instead the message of positive thinking. In his 1982 book, Self Esteem: The New Reformation, Schuller explicitly replaced the message of salvation from sin with a message of rescue from low self esteem. In his 2001 autobiography, My Journey, Schuller told of the massive influence of Dale Carnegie and Norman Vincent Peale on his thinking and theology. He told of his decision early in his ministry to replace theology with therapy. “I realized that every sermon I preached (whether formally from the pulpit or casually at a coffee shop) should be designed, not to ‘teach’ or ‘convert’ people, but rather to encourage them, to give them a lift. I decided to adopt the spirit, style, strategy, and substance of a ‘therapist’ in the pulpit.”

Dennis Voskuil, a professor of church history at Schuller’s alma mater, Western Theological Seminary, placed Schuller within the context of the New Thought movement. “Robert Schuller is indirectly related to a long line of popular religionists who have proclaimed the gospel of this-worldly well-being through positive thinking,” he wrote. “His lineage includes such disparate figures as Phineas Parkhurst Quimby, Mary Baker Eddy, Charles and Myrtle Fillmore, Ralph Waldo Trine, and Norman Vincent Peale. While there are many ideological branches on this family tree, all of its members have stressed a utilitarian message of self-help through some form of mind-conditioning.”

After detailing Schuller’s distinctive pilgrimage, Voskuil concluded: “By several standards, then, Schuller is an unconventional evangelical. But while he may be unusual, he is by no means unique, for he is merely one of the most prominent of a large and growing group of evangelicals who are promulgating the gospel of success.”

Those words were written almost thirty years ago. How does the “gospel of success” deal with bankruptcy? The filing of bankruptcy papers would be humbling enough for any ministry, but how does the very epicenter of “Possibility Thinking” deal with the stark reality of financial calamity?

Many years ago when I would occasionally see a small portion of Schuller's "Hour of Power" T.V. program, it always bothered me. Even though I didn't possess much Bible knowledge yet, each time I saw Schuller "preach" or read an excerpt from his books, I kept getting the distinct feeling that what he was teaching represented a definite skewing away from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Dr. Mohler sums it up well at the end of his post:

In his 1986 book, Your Church Has a Fantastic Future, Schuller provided what he called “A Possibility Thinker’s Guide to a Successful Church.” The book is a manual for a ministry built on pure pragmatism, sensationalistic promotion, a therapeutic message, and a constant and incessant focus on thinking positively.

His message about money was simple: “No church has a money problem; churches only have idea problems,” he asserted.

In an odd and upside-down way, the news of bankruptcy at the Crystal Cathedral makes that point emphatically. The most significant problem at the Crystal Cathedral is not financial, but theological. The issue is not money, but this ministry’s message. The “gospel of success” is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ, therapy is no substitute for theology, and “Possibility Thinking” is not the message of the Bible.

It turns out that Robert Schuller offers the best analysis of this crisis with his own words. “No church has a money problem; churches only have idea problems.” The theological crisis in Garden Grove is far more significant than the financial crisis.

Hat Tip:

Albert Mohler.com

The Grace To Trust God in Adversity

Just before signing off from FaceBook last night, I noticed a post that read, "Actually, life DID come with an instruction manual. It's called the Bible."

How true! The limited knowledge of any secular, worldly-minded humanist, psychiatrist, psychologist, politician, teacher, college professor, business person, physician, nurse, scientist etc. could not possibly compare to the wisdom and knowledge of God contained within the Bible.

I have been thinking about how chaotic our world continues to be. It is only growing worse. The confidence that we once had in our government here in the United States has been shattered. We see so much corruption going unpunished that it could be easy for us to lose heart.

I know that the majority of Americans are deeply alarmed over ObaMarxist, the progressives in Congress and the unelected lunatic-leftist czars who are writing all the damaging legislation that will further hurt our economy, freedoms, and liberty. They look forward to the 2010 election - with millions of conservatives hoping and praying for the removal of the corruptocrats in Congress through the victory of Tea Party candidates and conservative Republicans. Such a victory would make Obama a lame duck pResident until the new presidential election in 2012. Hopefully, the new Congress will be taken over by Republicans and the checks and balances against the far left Marxist policies of Obama that are damaging our country so badly will be stopped. Some (like government-run healthcare) may even be overturned.

No matter what happens, as believers in Jesus Christ and his eternal promises, we are given the grace (through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit) to trust God in adversity.

In his book "Trusting God," Jerry Bridges had this to say about troubled times: "The moral will of God given to us in the Bible is rational and reasonable. The circumstances in which we must trust God often appear irrational and inexplicable...It is only from the Scriptures, applied to our hearts by the Holy Spirit, that we receive grace to trust God in adversity...The faith to trust God in adversity comes through the Word of God alone."

This is what it means to set our minds on God through His Word. As Bridges affirms, the Scriptures often turn worldly logic on its head. People may think we are unreasonable. The truth is that only those with their minds set on God know what reason really is; only God's course is the course that will ultimately prevail.

Thinking about how chaotic our world is today brought back to mind one of the best book that I have ever read on this topic - "Living With Confidence in a Chaotic World" by Dr. David Jeremiah. [Note: The above quote is taken from this book.]

One bookmarked page in Chapter Five, entitled "Stay Connected", has suggestions for three ways to stay centered in Christ.

After Dr. Jeremiah discussed the importance of staying centered in Christ he goes on to describe just how do we go from being earth-centered to being heaven-centered?

Here are three suggestions to help you in your quest for Christ-centeredness.

Seek God's Will. "but seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you" (Matthew 6:33).

I had to chuckle when I read what Dr. Jeremiah states next. It seems to meld with the thoughts of those whose eyes are only on this world - and not God's heavenly kingdom.

What is it about this verse? People insist on reading it backwards, as though from some spiritual strain of dyslexia: "Add all these things unto you, then seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness in whatever time is left."

Doesn't that describe today's worldly-minded people? I like that phrase, "from some spiritual strain of dyslexia." It proves how true the Bible is when we read:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Dr. Jeremiah:

Blessed are those who read it as written, as intended, as the truth happens to be. One missionary rephrased it well: "Take care of the things that are important to God, and He will take care of the things that are important to you."

That is good advice for every single individual on earth. No one else can take on YOUR PARTICULAR responsibility (whatever that may be) in order to "take care of the things that are important to God" in your own life. Thus, God taking care of the things that are important to you cannot follow without first trusting in God and having faith in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.

I have seen this scenario played out over and over again in my own life as well as in other's lives. I can discuss this kind of advice freely with my Christian friends because they believe in Christ and agree that the Bible is God's Word and contains absolute truth. However, non-believers often take offense at such a notion.

The second way to stay centered in Christ:

Search God's Word.

This is how Christians can keep their sanity in the midst of all the chaos going on in the world today. Sometimes, I wonder how non-believers can keep it together. If they are paying attention and are seeing all of the evil, corruption and sin being unleashed - without the perpetrators receiving their due punishment for it - how do they hold out any hope? If their hope relies only on the "things of this world," they will continue to be sorely disappointed throughout their entire lives. The things of this world only end up falling to dust and blowing away because reliance on such things do not last. Only God's eternal Word and His Kingdom through Jesus Christ will last for all eternity. Remember, the Bible tells us that one day "every knee will bow" before Christ, and "every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" - which means even the non-believers and followers of other pagan religions - will one day realize who Christ is when He returns to this earth.

Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,


Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,


Phl 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.


Phl 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


Phl 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,


Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,


Phl 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Also take note of what is written in Romans:

Rom 14:11 For it is written: "As I live, says the LORD, Every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall confess to God."


Rom 14:12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.

The book of Isaiah in the Old Testament is filled with prophesy, as well as prophetic verses. Take note of this wisdom:

Isa 45:20 "Assemble yourselves and come; Draw near together, You who have escaped from the nations. They have no knowledge, Who carry the wood of their carved image, And pray to a god that cannot save.


Isa 45:21 Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, the LORD? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me.


Isa 45:22 "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.


Isa 45:23 I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.


Isa 45:24 He shall say, 'Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.


Isa 45:25 In the LORD all the descendants of Israel Shall be justified, and shall glory.'

Dr. Jeremiah:

Jesus was a guest in the home of Mary and Martha one day, as Luke's gospel tells us. He found Himself caught in the crossfire of warring priorities. Martha was playing hostess and housekeeper, while Mary sat at Jesus' feet and listened intently to His teaching. It didn't seem fair to Martha, and she told Jesus so -- Mary, she said, should do her part. As always, Jesus gave the least expected response: "Martha, Martha, you are worried and troubled about many things, but one thing is needed, and Mary has chosen that good part, which will not be taken away from her" (Luke 10:38-42).

As believers and followers of Jesus Christ, we ALL need to be focused on what Jesus has instructed and "chose that good part" daily.

It's fine to be involved in family [I believe in God first, family second, job (or other interests) third], work, politics, and any other activity as long as it doesn't compromise what the Bible teaches as truth. However, when we seek and study God's Word on a daily basis, it helps us stay focused on Jesus - the Author and Finisher of our faith.

Hbr 12:1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,


Hbr 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Hbr 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.

Dr. Jeremiah:

We face this choice every single day. Staying centered on Christ requires us to stay focused on God's Word. Geoffrey Thomas has written, "The love of Christ is the strongest constraint to knowing the Scriptures, and if we have little desire for the Bible, we should ask if we indeed know the Savior." In other words, our relationship with the Bible mirrors our relationship with Christ."

The third secret to staying centered in Christ is so simple, so powerful, and so often forgotten.

Support God's Work.

Simply go where His action is--and if you can't go there, find other ways to get involved.

The Sermon on the Mount instructs us:

Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;


Mat 6:20 "but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.


Mat 6:21 "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Dr. Jeremiah:

Pour yourself into eternal things, things that affect the invisible world; things that change the population of heaven.

Jesus says that our hearts naturally follow our treasures. What we value most is a magnet for our thoughts and emotions. Therefore we must learn to value God's things the most. The more we give ourselves to His purposes, the more centered on Christ we will become.

Amen!

Dr. Jeremiah:

There are many other means of staying centered on Christ in chaotic times. But if we start with seeking Him first and searching for Him in the Scriptures, if we remember that our heart follows our treasure and we invest that treasure in things above, we will be well on our way toward starting centered in Christ.

Hat Tips:

Reference: "Living With Confidence in a Chaotic World" by Dr. David Jeremiah, published in Nashville, Tennessee, by Thomas Nelson, 2009 pp. 128-132.

Blue Letter Bible

The Error of Collective Salvation and Black Liberation Theology (Update #3)

Did any readers see today's broadcast of The Glenn Beck Program on the Fox News Channel? It was a great expos'e of the errors of Black Liberation Theology (BLT) and liberation philosophy (lp). Glenn demonstrated how these two have hooked up with Marxism to create the skewed, unbiblical view of the definition of "social justice" that is being touted by the likes of liberal, progressive pastors such as Jeremiah Wright and Jim Wallis.

I want to encourage readers to DVR The Glenn Beck Program re-broadcast on the Fox News Channel tonight! In the past I have seen it shown at 11:00 p.m. (PT) and/or 2:00 a.m. (PT) - so check the listings.

The YouTube version of the show usually comes out several hours after the first broadcast, so I will be looking for it to include here in this post. Then readers can view it online.

I think that Beck did a great job describing both BLT and lp and explaining why it is in error of the true Gospel of Christ. He also included the Marxist elements (such as the ideas of "collective salvation" and "social justice") which Obama and his cohorts often refer to in lectures and speeches. We get a good idea as to why Obama's kind of beliefs mirror his maniac former pastor, Jeremiah Wright's Black Liberation Theology beliefs.

Beck had the author of Liberating Black Theology, Anthony B. Bradley as a spokesperson on his show to back up what Beck was sharing with the audience.

Even though Beck is a Mormon (he even acknowledged this during the broadcast) - which is viewed by most born again Christians as a religious offshoot in error of genuine Biblical Christianity - the fact that he DOES have a T.V. show and is able to use it to refute the "social justice" and "collective salvation" perversions of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a HUGE advantage in and of itself. Fortunately, he resisted going into his particular religion's traditions and beliefs in the book of Mormon. Today he did a great service to viewers by showing the perversion of Black Liberation Theology and black liberation philosophy.

This blog post will be added to over the next several hours, so please check back as more information will be forthcoming.

Update #1 @ 4:23 p.m. PT -

Although Glenn didn't have a lot of time to go into detail about the connections between the Black Panther Party rants (and the subsequent dismissing of the charges of voter intimidation done by members in the 2008 election by the Obama administration DOJ Attorney General - Eric Holder) he did show video evidence of it on his show the previous day. Today's show dealt less with the horrid rants of members and leaders (former and current) of the Black Panther Party, and more with how it relates to the spiritual confusion being touted by Black Liberation Theology, liberation philosophy, the error of collective salvation, and the skewing of the biblical meaning of social justice. You can see how these elements of error are being used by certain organizations (like the NAACP) to cause politically-driven hatred, racial tensions and division by the perpetrators of such beliefs via these posts:

Daily Thought Pad
NAACP Readies Racism Resolution Against Tea Parties As Michelle Obama Tells NAACP: America Still Unequal

Gateway Pundit
Republican Tim Scott Releases Statement – Condemns NAACP Resolution Against Tea Party - Republican Tim Scott from South Carolina spoke out against the NAACP’s racist attack on tea party patriots today Tim released this statement this afternoon...


The Conservative Monster.com - Conservative News, Politics, Terrorism, CNIN - Steve Cooper
Explosive Debate Between Megyn Kelly & Kirsten Powers Over the DOJ Dismissal of the Black Panther Voter Intimidation Case - * Click here for the VIDEO* * Share this story * ** *[image: Bookmark and Share]* *Order The SPECIAL EDITION - Air Brushed - Conservative Mons...

Big Government
I Condemn the NAACP - The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) is expected to pass a resolution condemning the “racist elements” of the Tea Party m...

Le·gal In·sur·rec·tion
NAACP Passes "Tea Party Is Racism" Resolution - The NAACP just passed a resolution condemning as racist the tens of millions of people who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement. As originall...

Desert Conservative
ERIC HOLDER: THE PROFILE OF A RACIST PROFILER! - Eric Holder, America’s Racist Attorney General! http://lisarichardsusa.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/eric-holder-racial-profile-racist/

Patriots and Liberty
The Evils of Collective Salvation - Faultline USA Update 5:20 PM: Be sure to watch Glenn Beck tomorrow, July 13th. The entire program will be devoted to the issue of Collective Salvation. Chr...

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All of the ills and divisions occurring in the hearts, minds, souls and spirits of mankind boils down these facts:

1. We are all sinners in need of the Savior - Jesus Christ.
2. We must be born again. (Jesus words in John 3:3)
3. Without Jesus Christ indwelling our hearts and minds in the form of the Holy Spirit, the minds of men are wrought in, and/or vulnerable to spiritual deception.
4. The rejection of God's Written Word, the Bible, and the ignorance and/or rejection of God's Living Word - Jesus Christ leads unrepentant minds into error, heresy and apostasy.

*******

Update #2 @ 6:15 p.m. PT -

Also see Glenn Beck's Page: Liberation Theology and Social Justice

Excerpt:

Jesus never said, "Take from the rich and let the government redistribute it." Take the parable of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritan chose to take it upon himself to help; he took on the bills himself. The government never told him to do it. Anything else is a perversion of Christianity and the perversion of the principles of God.

You don't need to be a Christian to believe this. You need to understand this because a perversion of God is extraordinarily dangerous.

Tonight, I have to take it a step further.

We are living in dangerous times and unless you understand what people are saying and why they are saying it and how they arrived there, then too many Americans are going to be fooled.

We start with James Cone. He's one of the founding fathers of liberation theology. Liberation theology is a brand of Christianity based on the liberation of the oppressed from unjust economic, political or social conditions. It centers around the idea that people are in one of two categories: the oppressor and the oppressed. Poverty, according to this theology, is caused because the poor are "victims of others."

James Cone is credited with starting the same liberation theology behind Rev. Wright's church:

Continue reading HERE.

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Update # 3 @ 8:46 p.m. PT -

Link to The Daily Beck broadcast of The Glenn Beck Program for 7/13/10:

Watch Glenn Beck.com: July 13, 2010 Show - Collective Salvation

Also - Talk Wisdom made the list of "collective salvation" hot news!

Greg Koukl: The Secret - A Fatal Attraction

This morning, I received an email with the July, 2010 issue of Stand to Reason's Solid Ground publication. It is available [Note: PDF form] at the following link:

Solid Ground - The Secret: A Fatal Attraction

The author's foreword discusses the time that he appeared on a T.V. show called Lee Strobel's Faith Under Fire in a debate with Deepak Chopra. I saw that show, which was broadcast back in 2005, and wrote about it at my Talk Wisdom forum.

After reading Mr. Koukl's analysis of Oprah's so-called "ministry" known as "The Secret," it is revealed that she and the author of the book are misleading over 22 million people towards an old lie type of "religion" which is nothing more than a mix of monism, pantheism and Hinduism. What's even more disturbing is the fact that this false religion is being touted as "consistent with Christianity." Nothing could be further from the truth!

Please feel free to share your thoughts on Mr. Koukl's analysis in the comment section.

Also, you may see Greg's schedule includes an appearance in Manhattan Beach, CA on July 28, 2010. I plan to attend! If you live in the area, perhaps I will see some of my readers there!

God bless and have a great day!

Christine

P.S. FYI - My forum is closed to new members. I was forced to do that because of dozens of spam registrations that were occurring each day. Since I started blogging, I usually use that forum for reference purposes. However, if anyone wants to join the forum board, scroll down to "Contact Us" and follow the instructions. Also, I noticed that the link to "Smart Christian" is no longer active.

Hat Tip:

Stand To Reason

Looking For Christian Reviews On This Essay!

When I read the title of the latest post over at Herescope: Restoring the Gospel of Salvation, I was excited to read it. The title of the article, however, was a bit different from the title of the post, which asks, "Does not the salvation of sinners trump national restoration?"



Without revealing my reaction after reading the editorial, I present it here - in its entirety - so that readers can write their own thoughts, comments, positive and/or critical reviews about what was written in the essay. I am especially interested in what other Christians think about the article, though all are invited to share their opinions as well. I plan to reveal my thoughts, comments and reactions to the post sometime over the next two days.

Happy reading! I encourage each Christian reading here to put on your apologetics hat and take some time to comment about what you have read!

In Christ,

Christine

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Tuesday, June 29, 2010
Restoring the Gospel of Salvation

Does not the salvation of sinners trump national restoration?




An Editorial by Rev. Dr. Orrel Steinkamp



There is a new virus going around. Its called Christian political war gaming. Once the virus strikes it becomes a near obsession. I know a number of people who don’t get enough sleep because they are at their computers doing political war games. Once they lived healthy Christian lives. Their passion was the Gospel of saving individual sinners. Now they rarely have the time or energy for their former passion. Their affections have been alienated. They need a Gospel intervention.

Former websites that defended the Gospel of salvation now are mostly devoted to restoring an illusive American past and proving our present president is a stealth Muslim attempting to make America a Muslim caliphate. Joseph Farah, World Net Daily Christian conspiracy expert, is sure Obama has specific plans for Christian concentration camps.

Even if all this is true, why should this divert us from our mandate of preaching the Gospel to every creature? Why should we be attempting to infiltrate and dominate every political entity before the time of God's vengeance?

Paul wasn't worried about imperial palace intrigue in Rome. Obama is just being a politician from the Left. Like all politicians before him he has an agenda. We do not have to accept these principles and we can vote our conscience and financially support the campaigns of our choice. In the current political stalemate this could qualify me as a liberal. Well! I didn’t vote for Obama and I didn’t vote for McCain. I was comfortable with making a write-in choice, one I know my every reader would support. I don't like Obama's stance on many things personally, and I deeply resent his reference to two fathers on fathers day. But neither did I appreciate "born-again" President Bush's statement to Muslim leaders that we both pray to the same God.

Nevertheless, Romans 13 states with clarity that God puts up rulers of His choice for His purposes. I may not agree with God's choice and can't always see His purpose, but I am commanded to pray for the rulers our Sovereign God raises up.

Is it for Christian evangelists to suffer near frenetic emotional exhaustion in the political war games arcade? Is the eternal purpose of God hanging on such a thin thread? Is the biblical Jehovah really such a wimp deity, and a weak onlooker to the affairs of men, hoping Christians will overcome politically and take back dominion our God supposedly lost in the Garden of Eden and a establish the kingdom of God in the earth?

America survived Clinton, Hoover, and a corrupt Ulysses Grant, and it will continue to survive if it is God’s will. My God is a sovereign who could overcome Egyptian Pharaohs (after Israel was in bondage for 300 years) and could even raise up Cyrus, a pagan ruler, to accommodate Israel’s return to Jerusalem. Paul never ever looked to Rome except to use his Roman citizenship for the furtherance of the Gospel.

How must we look to the persecuted church? Are we by example suggesting they become political terrorists for the Kingdom of God and unnecessary martyrs? Janet Porter, in her June 8, 2010 WorldNetDaily column, suggested that some of us were like the pious Germans who held high their hymnbooks so they wouldn’t see the cattle cars on their way to exterminate Jews. (A classic false dichotomy.) What could they have done? Lay themselves on the tracks? The German Christians were culpable, not because of their hymn singing but because they made common cause with the goals and destiny of the Third Reich, as did the Vatican in Rome.

Jesus, whom we say is our example, shunned (not a strong enough word) political pursuits in the name of the Kingdom of God. Recall the story of when Jesus was arrested in the garden of Gethsemane. Peter rushed to action and struck off the soldiers ear. Jesus was so perturbed that He instantly restored it and said to Peter "put your sward [sic] in its sheath" (John 18:11).

The Jerusalem that Jesus entered was a political hotbed. The people were involved in every possible action to drive out the pagan Romans from the holy city. When Jesus entered on Palm Sunday He purposefully fulfilled an Old Testament prophesy of the coming messiah by riding into the city on a young donkey. "Hosanna in the Highest" the crowd cried. Hosanna means “save us now." They treated Him as political messiah who would use his supernatural powers to drive out the Romans and RESTORE JERUSALEM. Did they look for a suffering savior who would bear the sins of the people? Hardly! By the time Jesus went to the cross they were all long gone.

Even the Romans saw Jesus as political threat. The quisling Jewish leaders, in collaboration with the Romans, were afraid of a political uprising. But the Messiah came for the redemption of sinners, not a political restoration of the Jewish State. It is safe to say the reason Jesus died nearly alone is because it was not "His Hour" to Judge the nations. It was only "His hour" to go to the cross. Why did He die nearly alone?

The Jews, and even His disciples, expected Jesus "to save now, hosanna." The Dominionists today are crying "hosanna now." They claim we can restore what Jesus failed to do in His first advent. But the resurrected Jesus had to tell His disciples that it was not for them to know the times and the season that the Father has fixed, by His own authority," to restore the Kingdom to Israel.

On the cross Jesus could have called 10,000 angels for His rescue. But this would have totally contravened the plan of redemption from sin decreed by God (not "decreed" by a fake apostle!) from the foundation of the world. Redemption from sin remains to this day the focus of the kingdom of God. Jerusalem was filled with zealots (we would call them undercover militia). They were called the sicarii (Latin for dagger), for they hid daggers in their robes to assassinate Romans and collaborators. Even the Essene community at the Dead Sea was calling for a final battle between the Sons of God (Israel) and the Sons of Darkness.

Into this political milieu Jesus never uttered a solitary political word. He made it plain that “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36). He, however, looked forward to when the Son of Man would RETURN and when He then would judge the nations. But until that great and awesome Day of the Lord, when the Savior would return on the clouds of glory, He was not striving for an earthly kingdom. He was content with establishing a church, His body upon the earth. Many in His day were offended by Him because He apparently had not political ambitions. Judas is speculated to be among them. Jesus asserted with force that His day to rule the nations awaited His second return, when He would judge the nations like a shepherd divides His sheep from the goats.

G. Peter Wagner, chief apostle of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), made a tactical decision to see Dominionism as temporarily consistent with democracy. I have not been able to locate when and where Wagner made such an "apostolic decree." But, indeed, the Kingdom of God cannot ultimately be a democracy. For Wagner and any other Dominionist, the democratic process can only be a way station on the road to their "kingdom of God on the earth," which is prior to the real Parousia.

Wagner's tactical decision (as opposed to strategic decision) was a major change. It opened the way for the false apostles and prophets to enter the political arena. So now "apostle" Lou Engle is free to lay apostolic hands of blessing on 3-time divorcee Newt Gingrich. Now the NAR apostles and prophets, thanks to Janet Porter and WorldNetDaily, can take their equal places in politics. Now they have the blessing of James Dobson, who endorsed Janet Porter’s May Day event at the Lincoln Memorial. Now Cindy Jacobs, prophetess extraordinaire, who had a visit of the Seraphim in her room that caught it on fire, can share the stage with Newt Gingrich. Now Rick Joyner, who has his own political action organization which he calls the Oak Initiative -- and who reportedly made a trip to heaven and heard Martin Luther repent of the Reformation -- can rub shoulders with James Dobson.

So now these self-anointed, self-appointed apostles of the NAR, laden down with false signs and wonders, false apostolic decrees, and false prophets -- who compete with each other in imaginary "can you top this" fraudulent oracles supposed to be from God -- have been given the kiss of acceptance by Christian Right politicians, including James Dobson. The apostles and prophets see this as a match made in heaven, a giant step toward appointing apostles as governors of every state and province in the world, complete with in-house prophetic seers to make supernatural decisions.

But I for one see it as blip in church history (like the Montanists of the 1st century), a match made in the pit of political desire for power before our King returns in His glory.

Separated To The Gospel of God

Today, as I looked at the blog posts in my sidebar, several verses in Romans Chapter 1 came to my mind.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;

Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; [they are] whisperers,

Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Rom 1:31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;

Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

That describes many people living today in the United States of America. Particularly, it highly describes those who self-identify as liberal leftists, progressives, socialists (including Marxists, Maoists, Communists etc.) and social justice advocates. I don't even need to list examples. Examples can be found everywhere in the news because they are quite evident all around us. Just read the blogs in my sidebar. Watch the Lamestream Media of Mass Deception. Listen to those who, unbelievably and unconscionably, would have the crazy mindset to show sympathy for the terrorist who wanted to blow up Times Square with a truck filled with explosives.

Have you noticed that the words Islamic terrorist, or Islamic jihadist, or radical Islamic extremist are not included in the descriptions of the perpetrator when shared by the nightly news pundits? They bend over backwards not to us the term "Islam" so as to be politically correct - to a fault! Yet, these same goons would unfairly label the TEA Party Patriots as "astro-turf," "right-wing extremists," "racists," "Nazis," "anti-(fill in the blank for the latest social justice term they are using)______ extremists."

What is wrong with this picture?

Plenty. But I don't need to tell anyone reading here what is wrong. You instinctively ALREADY KNOW what is wrong! They are not only the "hate America first" crowd, they are also very disparaging against Jesus Christ and His followers.

Allah, Mohammed, and Muslim followers of the Koran are not insulted by the media. Yet, the same courtesy is never given to God, Jesus Christ, and Christian followers of the Bible. Why??

Christ told us that they would hate us because they first hated Him.

In the Obama: The Chessboard Pawn comment thread, I included a link to an article written by Barbara Ehrenreich (one of the members whose name I recognized and was included in the group described in New Zeal Blog's report: Obama File 102: America's Little Lenin? Joel Rogers and the Obama Movement..) I specifically worked to refute her claims, using Bible verses as evidence of the obvious bankruptcy of her negative tirade and ignorant positions that she took against God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible.

She wrote that despicable article back in 2005, blaming God for the tsunami. I just couldn't let her anti-God, anti-Christian, ignorant blathering go without challenge, so I wrote a response to each of her crazy and stupid incendiary remarks.

If anyone is interested in reading it, go to: Talk Wisdom message board: Rationalizing God's latest 'felony'??

It really peeves me when those who don't know much, if anything, about God, Jesus or the Bible, spew their hate-drenched rhetoric like Ehrenreich did. However, when weighed against the truth, it does expose how ignorant she is about the subject.

Since Ehrenreich is the kind of person who would belong to these fake green groups who illegally funnel money from taxpayers and get away with it, then we can see why our nation is in such dire straits with the Resident ObaMARXIST pawn in "power."

If you take the time to read just the first page of comments (which include four sections of what I wrote to refute Ms. Ehrenreich's claims), you might easily recognize the difference between one who knows the God of the Bible and our Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ; vs. one who tries to create "god" in her own image and opinion(s). That is precisely what the left (especially the radical leftists) attempt to do on all issues where the God of the Bible doesn't fit their own secular, humanistic desires, wants, opinions, ideas, politics, and notions of what a Righteous God would (and should) be like.

If you really think about it, it is as if they are creating their own idol in their minds, and then putting their own mind-created idol ideals and actions upon the God of the universe.

Why do they do this?

Because their deeds are evil. (Jesus' words - not mine!)

What better way to camouflage their sins then to create the idea that what they believe about abortion, homosexual behavior, euthansia, lying, cheating, stealing etc. is not really sinful?

You see, it is because they are not "separated to the gospel of God" as Paul states in Romans 1:1. They are not bond servants of Jesus Christ - they serve themselves and their own fleshly desires.

Without being born again in Christ Jesus, a sinner (which we all are - including me until the moment of genuine salvation) CANNOT receive "grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith" as it is described in Romans 1:5.

When you read all of Romans 1, you discover the characteristics of those in the faith, which are completely opposite to the characteristics of those who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. The contrast could not be more clear!

We see the evidence of those who willingly reject Christ in their lives. They live up to (more like - live down to) all of the descriptions that Paul makes in Romans 1:21 - 1:32.

The truly sad thing to realize is that many of these kinds of people are running (and ruining) our country today. The lying, deceitfulness, cheating, thug-like behavior, misinformation, rejection of decency, willingness to ignore the law and what is right in this life is so painfully obvious in Washington D.C. that we almost cannot even recognize our country anymore.

But don't just take my word for it. Read Daily Thought Pad: Cornucopia of Corruption and Treason


It is only the hand of God that can truly save us. This is why we must continue to pray!

Just as George Washington knelt down and prayed at Valley Forge - when it looked like all was lost against the power of the British army in that day, WE THE PEOPLE must get down on our knees, confess our own sin and shortcomings, and fervently pray to God for deliverance from this evil, corrupt, and deceitful gangster government.

Here is Romans 1:1 - 1:32:

Rom 1:1 Paul, a bond servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God


Rom 1:2 which He promised before through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures,


Rom 1:3 concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, who was born of the seed of David according to the flesh,


Rom 1:4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.


Rom 1:5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name,


Rom 1:6 among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;


Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


Rom 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of His Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers,


Rom 1:10 making request if, by some means, now at last I may find a way in the will of God to come to you.


Rom 1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established--


Rom 1:12 that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.


Rom 1:13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.


Rom 1:14 I am a debtor both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to wise and to unwise.


Rom 1:15 So, as much as is in me, [I am] ready to preach the gospel to you who are in Rome also.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.


Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." [fn]


Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,


Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them.


Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,


Rom 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.


Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,


Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.


Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,


Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.


Rom 1:27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.


Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting;


Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, [fn] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; [they are] whisperers,


Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,


Rom 1:31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, [fn] unmerciful;


Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

NKJV Footnotes:
(1:16) NU-Text omits of Christ.
(1:17) Habakkuk 2:4
(1:29) NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
(1:31) NU-Text omits unforgiving.

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Hat Tips to all links

True Strength Through Weakness

I have written several blog posts about Dr. David Jeremiah's sermons, books, and devotionals. If you have not started to receive the free monthly devotional, I urge you to go to Dr. David Jeremiah.org and sign up for the monthly magazine. The writings each month are awesome! The articles are biblically based, Jesus centered, and wisdom filled! During this time of trials and tribulation on earth, we need to stay focused on the promises of Jesus and what he informs us about via the Bible. It is most important for us to do what is required of us, as faithful Christian believers, who belong to our Savior, Lord, and King, Jesus Christ.

In the May issue entitled, "The Unlikely," we read about people in the Bible who were humbled and called to do God's work; despite the fact that people who lived during that time might have seen those called as obscure and unlikely heroes. What is amazing is to realize that some who were called were previously mean, crude, selfish, and violent people! For example. The Apostle Paul was previously a persecutor of Christians. When he was humbled and temporarily blinded after his encounter with the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus, we read about his 180 degree transformation!

Dr. Jeremiah emphasizes that God doesn't measure people as we do. He states, "We forget that God isn't looking for the famous but for the faithful."

Another way to look at this is to realize that men look to the outward appearance, while God looks at the heart.

As human beings made in God's image and likeness, we WANT to leave a mark on this earth. We want to achieve significance in life. When we are born again in Christ, we desire to be used by God in a great way.

Dr. Jeremiah writes:

He's (God) not impressed with degrees or with stars on a so-called "walk of fame." Nor does He need perfect people, just those willing to be servants.

I think that is the key! A genuine born-again Christian who loves Jesus Christ desires to be a servant for Him - not famous in front of others. This requires us to go against the grain of people who are only living "in the world," but do not follow Christ. Their focus is on other things (especially themselves) and not on what Jesus commanded of all believers - to share the Gospel to an unbelieving, sinful, skeptic, harsh, hateful, and selfish world. Jesus warned us that we would be hated because the world hated Him first.

The apostle Paul told the Corinthians: "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence" (1 Corinthians 1:26-31).

According to 1 Timothy 1:15, Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. We are all members of that group! "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Therefore, no one can boast for what they have done on this earth. NOTHING compares - in fact - all else pales in comparison to what Jesus Christ achieved for our salvation at the cross of Calvary. This is exactly the reason why none can boast!

One of the most powerful essays in the May Turning Points devotional booklet is the one entitled, "Last in Line...and Other Unlikely Strengths."

Dr. Jeremiah starts the essay describing why some people love to watch the show "Survivor" while others don't. I must admit, I'm in the "I don't watch it" category! The few times that I have happened to see small portions of it, I didn't like it. I wasn't quite sure why I felt that way, but this essay helped explain it for me.

Dr. Jeremiah shared that the shows motto - "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast" - is not only about friendly competition.

He goes on to describe what goes on in the show - the physical challenges and hardships, the weird food consumed, etc. He writes:

But I don't think those are the main reasons people who love the show watch, and those who don't like it don't watch. It's the way the show's motto is fulfilled by the contestants. It's the strategies and alliance, the wheeling and dealing, the deceiving and double-crossing the contestants employ in their efforts to eliminate their competitors and claim the cash at the end of the show's season.

In other words, shows like Survivor and Big Brother provide the perfect settings for displaying how modern culture views strength: Use any method at your disposal to get to the top of the heap and grab the gold ring. Strength is not about moral or spiritual superiority, it is about superiority at any cost. It is about using anything at one's disposal, including other people, to achieve a stated goal.

I don't even know how long "Survivor" has been on T.V. However, since we now have a Marxist leader and gangster government in power, the reality show fantasy has now become a scary reality to millions of people who have been protesting and rejecting the out-of-control spending and government takeover of the private sector. They worry about the deficit and the huge power grab of money and wealth that big government is confiscating - all against the will of We The People. If I was a fan of "Survivor" in the past, I certainly wouldn't be one now! The fantasy land of T.V. shows has become a very unfortunate reality. It is scary to see our liberty, freedoms, homeland security, friendships with allies (especially Israel) wealth, and prosperity disappear right before our very eyes! It is getting worse day by day.

I know that many Christians don't agree with Glenn Beck - either for political, social, or religious reasons. However, I think that he is correct to promote non-violence, yet encourage those who are awake to the horrid schemes of this administration to hammer away at the anvil of truth. To do otherwise would be to shirk our Christian duty as Citizens of this great country!

Some Christian friends of mine don't think that Obama and his cohorts are a grave danger to our nation. So be it! They can believe what they want. But I would challenge them to notice the harm being done by this man ever since he took office.

Personally, the first reason that I objected to Obama as a candidate was his pro-abortion position. We all know that the "choice" crowd has no tolerance for the pro-life position. The day I saw Ms. Jehmu Greene being interviewed about the abortion issue on the Fox News Channel, I was shocked at how she deliberately and nastily disparaged pro-lifers while heralding her "pro-choice" position as "good." It made me sick to my stomach! I thought, how could this woman be so blinded by her own progressive ideology?

Contrast Ms. Jehmu Greene's attitude with the late Mother Teresa of the Missionaries of Charity of Calcutta, India. Dr. Jeremiah writes:

[She] stood before the most powerful men and women in Washington, D.C. at the National Prayer Breakfast in 1994. She pointed out how strength can be misused and illustrated biblical strength, both in the same speech. There could not be a more apt manifestation of weakness - in the world's eyes - than Mother Teresa, given her tiny stature. So tiny that she could barely be seen behind the podium, Mother Teresa shocked the gathered crowd by telling them, "Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love one another but to use any violence to get what they want. This is why the greatest destroyer of love and peace is abortion." (italics added).

One of the "weakest" women in the world humbled a room filled with some of the "strongest" people in the world with nothing more than truth backed up by a life of spiritual strength and integrity. The contrast between spiritual strength and worldly strength could not have been more pronounced than it was that day.

Recall when Obama was asked by Pastor Rick Warren on national T.V., "when does life begin?" Obama sarcastically replied, "that's above my pay grade."

I would have LOVED to see Obama's reaction to Mother Teresa's comments at that 1994 prayer breakfast!

Dr. Jeremiah:

When we use "any violence" - physical, emotional, interpersonal, financial, moral - to get what we want, we have resorted to using strength according to the world rather than according to the Word. Not surprisingly, strength is a paradox in Scripture, one of many that contrast the kingdom of God with the kingdom of this world.

The current administration is so blatantly attached to belief in "the kingdom(s) of this world" that our current president actually bows in front of the leaders of other countries! Have you ever seen anything so bizarre?

The acts of clawing their way to the top can be contrasted with another paradox concerning leadership: Jesus said, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all" (Mark 9:35).

Dr. Jeremiah writes:

Paradoxically, Paul says desiring to lead is a good thing (1 Timothy 3:1). But true leaders are the ones brought to the fore by the Holy Spirit on the basis of their lives of service (Acts 20:28).

[And] there are more paradoxes. We find rest and freedom by voluntarily submitting ourselves to a yoke (Matthew 11:28-29); we find life by dying (John 12:24); we are exalted when we humble ourselves (Matthew 23:12); we become great by becoming small (Matthew 23:11).

Perhaps the greatest paradox of all - and the one we are considering in this article - involves strength: We only gain true strength through weakness.

I see the current political climate as a plot to make America weak. You may disagree with me, but that's how I see it. Everything that Obama and Congress has done is not strengthening nor uplifting America and her people. Therefore, it appears to be a deliberate weakening going on for a much more nefarious purpose than many Americans are willing to admit. Many already see through their miserable actions to tear down this nation. The TEA Party Patriots are well aware and have been actively sounding the alarm bells for the rest of America to wake up! Over the past 1 1/2 years, the call for restoring truth, honor and liberty to this nation has resonated with millions more people. Thus, we are seeing how God's Hand in all of this is working. He needed to allow us to be weak first, then we can gain true strength through Him!

Dr. Jeremiah discusses the meek and the weak:

Would it not make sense that those destined to take over the world, to "inherit the earth," would be among humanity's strongest? Yet who did Jesus say would inherit the earth? The meek (Matthew 5:5). Of course, the world equates meekness with weakness. But consider this: In the King James Version of the Bible, Numbers 12:3 says that "the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth." And I don't think anyone would mistake Moses for a weak man!

More modern translations of Scripture substitute "humble" for meek in that verse, which is entirely consistent with the paradoxes of Scripture. Strength comes through humility; strength comes through weakness. And no one learned that lesson more dramatically than the apostle Paul.

[Saul] the strong persecutor, became Paul, the spiritually strong apostle, via the road of weakness.

Dr. Jeremiah shares the fact that Paul had a "thorn in the flesh" that was not removed from him, despite his original plea to have it removed. God allowed him to live with it. God gave him grace to live with it: "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness" (verse 9).

During this time of great tumult that is going on in our nation, I believe that God has allowed this "thorn in our side" to remain for a reason. It is difficult, admittedly, to cope with our current situation. But I believe that in His perfect timing, we will realize that God's grace is sufficient for us. Remember, the world defines strength differently than the Word describes it.

Dr. Jeremiah writes:

So revolutionary was this experience for Paul that it became part of his life message: "Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong" (2 Corinthians verses 9-10, italics added).

The world claims that "only the strong survive." What is quite the paradox is that biblically speaking, that is correct! Except, we view "strong" as "spiritually strong."

Dr. Jeremiah explains:

There is no way to survive the trial and travails of life without being spiritually strong. And we become strong in the most unlikely of ways: by becoming weak in ourselves and strong in Christ.

I believe that Christians throughout our nation are praying more fervently and frequently than ever before. We are seeing what is being done to our nation and it seems like We The People are powerless to stop it. We may be temporarily powerless to keep those who would be intent on destroying all that is good in our country; but another day is coming! We are vulnerable - and in a place of weakness where the Hand of God is all that can really rescue us from this travail.

What is God teaching us through all of this turmoil? As Dr. Jeremiah emphasizes at the end of the essay, I think that He is teaching us the unlikely solution to weakness:

You may be in a place right now in which you feel particularly vulnerable, particularly weak, particularly defenseless. Looking around, do you view yourself as being the last in line in life? Congratulations! You are right where you need to be to become strong. You are in the only place where true strength can be found. Confess your weakness to God and ask for His grace to become sufficient for you.

An unlikely solution to weakness? Perhaps - but totally consistent with the ways of the "God of the Unlikely."

Atheists Become God

This week, I will be working on a series of postings under the title of "New Think." I will be sharing how some Christians can be persuaded to either veer away, or simply choose not to get involved with what John MacArthur labeled in his book as "The Truth War - Fighting for Certainty in an Age of Deception."

The irony will be made clear that those who follow this kind of "New Think" are actually falling for some of the oldest tricks in Satan's arsenal of deception. My first post may take a while. Two days, in fact. In the meantime, I want to bring over a very interesting conversation that was started by Sothenes over at my Talk Wisdom message board. There have been 162 views, so there is a public interest in the current bantering written there.

The following is a copy of the posts (so far), as of 3/8/10 at 10:42 a.m. Additional replies and comments will be added here when posted over at the message board. Comments by Talk Wisdom blog readers are welcomed here, as well.

Christine

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Sothenes


Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Atheists become God
Don Carson - What Is Sin And How Is It Different From Idolatry?Atheism becomes your supreme good and replaces the God who is there and that becomes god for you because that is idolatry.
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Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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GMpilot

Senior Member

Join Date: Oct 2004
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Posts: 1,089

Strike one!
No, Sothenes; the 'supreme good' is to help others.If you can supply any evidence that any god--Zeus, Odin, Marduk, YHWH, or any other--is "there"--provide it. That's all I ask. Now pay attention, because there'll be a quiz later. Atheism means "without belief in a god or gods". If you can explain to us how not believing in a god makes that person into a god, please do so. Then you can tell us how that disbelief translates as 'sin'. I certainly don't worship myself, I don't demand that anyone else do so, and would be embarrassed if anyone did.I'm not like some supernatural beings who command you to acknowledge them.Given that our hostess won't post my reply for days after yours, this may take some time. That's okay; I'll wait as long as it takes for an answer.
__________________

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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admin (Christine)
Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,634

Again, God's Word says it best:

Rom 1:17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, [fn] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them.

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible [attributes] are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

Rom 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify [Him] as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Sorry GM - you are without excuse for not knowing Him through the evidence of His Son, Jesus Christ, - according to God's Word.
__________________
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9

********

GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,089

Strike two!

Quote:
admin: Sorry GM - you are without excuse for not knowing Him
through the evidence of His Son, Jesus Christ, - according to God's
Word.

Sorry, admin--I don't need excuses. I have reasons, which are a whole lot better.
I see no evidence of any God, and never have. I have no reason to believe one exists. Jesus, who is claimed to be his son, almost certainly did exist, but his divinity is doubtful. No one has produced evidence of it; not Paul, not you. All you have are assertions, which you call faith.

Citing Jesus Christ as evidence to prove the existence of God is like claiming Robin the Boy Wonder as evidence to prove the existence of Batman!

Besides...if I, as an atheist, 'become' God...I couldn't believe in myself, either! Sorry, I'm just not that debased.
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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admin (Christine)
Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,634

A reasonable faith


GM wrote:

Quote:
Jesus, who is claimed to be his son, almost certainly did exist, but his divinity is doubtful. No one has produced evidence of it; not Paul, not you. All you have are assertions, which you call faith.

No evidence? How about an empty tomb? How about the fact that after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, he was seen by all of the disciples plus 500 more people?

Yes. I have faith. Based on the Bible's teachings - it is indeed a reasonable faith.
__________________
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9

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GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,089

Re: Post #9471

Quote:
CJW: No evidence? How about an empty tomb?

An empty tomb is just that: an empty tomb. Tutankhamen isn't in his tomb anymore, either.

Quote:
How about the fact that after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, he was seen by all of the disciples plus 500 more people?

Where and when did the latter event take place? We know about the disciples (and we all know that Thomas didn't believe it until he actually saw Jesus, right?). AFAIK, we have only Paul's word on it, and even he never claimed that he saw it himself. Who among that crowd wrote down what he saw? No one. Who's the only one who speaks of it? No one...except a guy who didn't see it himself.

I think it's glorified hearsay...but if you consider it reasonable, fine. I'm not convinced.
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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Sothenes
Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 881

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpilot
Besides...if I, as an atheist, 'become' God...I couldn't believe in myself, either! Sorry, I'm just not that debased.

Quote:
The Causes of Atheism

Fatherlessness

It was Sigmund Freud who hypothesized that belief in God was simply the product of a psychological need of a loving father. However, as Spiegel notes, calling largely upon the research of Paul Vitz’s The Faith of the Fatherless (1999), Freud provides a basis for suspecting that atheism, in many cases, is actually the result of the resentment the atheist harbors toward his or her own father, in turn, justifying his rejection of a God.

Vitz’s work is highlighted throughout this chapter to sustain the large list of atheists who had lost their father early in life (David Hume, Arthur Schopenhauer, Friedrich Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Albert Camus) or who had fathers that we abusive or weak (Voltaire, H.G. Wells, Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Ludwig Feuerbach, Sigmund Freud, and Albert Ellis).

One of the most interesting sections of this chapter centered around the new atheists and their relationships with their fathers:

“What about the new atheists? Do they confirm this thesis? We know that Daniel Dennett’s father died in plane crash in 1947, when Dennett was just five years old…Christopher Hitchen’s father appears to have been very distant…tragically, when Hitchens was twenty-four, his mother killed herself in a suicide pact with lover. After his mother’s death, Hitchens says, “I no longer really had a family,” which is an especially sad statement considering his father was still alive. As for Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, there is very little information available regarding their relationships with their fathers.” [p. 68-69]

The author admits that “the psychological dynamics of atheism are very complex, but the impact of the father relationship does appear to be profound…Human beings were made in God’s image, and the father-child relationship mirrors that of humans as God’s “offspring.” We unconsciously (and often consciously, depending on one’s worldview) conceive of God after the pattern of our earthy father.” [p. 68-69]

Moral Depravity

I found this section to most fascinating. Spiegel challenges the reader with the idea that many of the most intelligent men and women reject God because of their moral depravity. Moreover, he makes the astute connection that an intellectual’s work is clearly impacted by one’s personal conduct. In fact, in many cases, the intellectual’s work is often the muse in which he or she attempts to justify his or her repugnant behavior.

Spiegel proceeds to quote E. Michael Jones to sustain this point:

“There are ultimately only two alternatives in the intellectual life: either one conforms desire to the truth or one conforms truth to desire. These two positions represent opposite poles between which a continuum of almost infinite gradations exist.” [p. 74]

The author then continues by providing numerous examples of many well-respected intellectuals of the past that clearly have “conformed the truth” to their largely sexual desires and in turn have corrupted their scholarly work as well:

“God delivers the sexually immoral over to a depraved mind. Jones sums it up well: “Sexual sins are corrupting…The most insidious corruption brought about by sexual sin, however, is the corruption of the mind. One moves all too easily from sexual sins, which are probably the most common to mankind, to intellectual sins, which are the most pernicious.” [p. 80]

As this chapter closes, the topic of faith is freshly revisited by considering the works of nineteenth-century Harvard philosopher William James.

Spiegel writes:

“James makes his point by using the illustration of a mountain climber who is unsure as to whether he can make it safely across a difficult pass. If he succeeds, he will go on to safety. But if he fails, death awaits. Can he make it? He will never know either way until he actually ventures. James makes a similar point about many philosophical issues, where the evidence alone is inconclusive. The lesson he draws is that faith is practically necessary. He concludes, ‘In the average man…the power to trust, to risk a little beyond the evidence, is an essential function…We cannot live or think at all without some degree of faith.’” [p. 83-84]

Indeed; this is true for the theologian, philosopher, and the atheist.

The Obstinacy of Atheism


Admittedly, many times when I am dialoguing with an atheist, I feel like I am talking with someone from another world. And I certainly realize that they most likely feel the same way about talking to me!

Drawing upon the now famous work of physicist Thomas Kuhn in his classic book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Spiegel attempts to use Kuhn’s concept of a “paradigm” to help the reader understand the atheist position better. He notes that the atheistic paradigm (a set of assumptions, definitions, laws, and techniques) must “reject as false…all references to miracles, souls, divine authority of Scripture, or personal experience of God.” Further, Spiegel admittedly writes that:

“…theists and atheists, in a sense, live in different worlds. God is at the center of the theist’s worldview, and this colors his or her every experience and value judgment. On the other hand, the axis of a worldview without God is necessarily the self, and the atheist’s values and personal experience are shaped accordingly.” [p. 101]

Spiegel continues by stating:

“The difference in perspective is compounded when we consider the concept of spiritual discernment, which is granted only to those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells. As Paul writes, “The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor 2:14). [p. 102].

As this chapter ends, Spiegel assesses John Calvin’s sensus divinitatis. According to Calvin, the sensus divinitatis refers to every human’s natural awareness of God that is inborn or innate.

Spiegel notes:

“Somehow, each of us comes into this world equipped with what we might call a spiritual “antenna,” to use yet another analogy. As one matures, this antenna becomes operational, usually beginning in early childhood. Many parents, like myself, can attest to the natural ability in children to understand and respond to the reality of God.” [p. 107]

The author believes that this concept of sensus divinitatis provides insight into the reason that many atheists seem incapable of sensing or thinking clearly about God. Simply put, their minds are suffering from the effects of sin. Drawing upon the argumentation of Plantinga once again, Spiegel explains that the non-believer’s mind has a type of “cognitive malfunction” that hinders their mind from working in the way it was created to.

Spiegel goes on to explain:

“What causes malfunction in any system always comes back to the fall. Sin and its consequences have wreaked havoc on the world, and human cognition is no exception. In short, sin disrupts our ability to think straight…discussion of such issues is outside the scope of this book, but it is worth noting that the noetic effects of sin extend far beyond theological matters. Cognition about God is only the most immediately impacted by sin.” [p. 111]

Spiegel ends this chapter by summarizing the overall case made in the book:

"The descent into atheism is caused by a complex of moral-psychological factors, not a perceived lack of evidence for God’s existence. The atheist willfully rejects God, though this is precipitated by immoral indulgences and typically a broken relationship with his or her father. Thus, the choice of the atheistic paradigm is motivated by non-rational factors, some of which are psychological and some of which are moral in nature…

The hardening of the atheistic mind-set occurs through cognitive malfunction due to two principal causes. First, atheists suffer from paradigm-induced blindness…second, atheists suffer from damage to the sensus divinitatis, so their natural awareness of God is severely impeded. Both of these mechanisms are aspects of the noetic effects of sin.” [p. 113-114].

Truth Bomb Blogspot
__________________
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

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GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,089

Conclusion?

An interesting read, Sothenes.

So where in these parameters do you think I fit?
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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Sothenes
Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 881

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMpilot
An interesting read, Sothenes.

So where in these parameters do you think I fit?

That is a determination you are going to have to make.
__________________
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

*******

GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,089

Re: Post # 9495

Quote:
Sothenes:

That is a determination you are going to have to make.

You've made the determination, Sothenes, not I.

You've posted an extensive quote about the perceived motivations and causes of atheism. You listed 'fatherlessness', 'moral depravity', and 'obstinacy'.
Your source mentions something about “damage to the sensus divinitatis” (is there such a thing?), and something about “the noetic effects of sin.” (It sounds very much like Spiegel is of the Martin Luther school of noetics: Reason is dangerous, and must be submerged or destroyed.)

Yet when I ask you which of these you think applies to me, you suddenly get all coy and say that I have to determine what I'm suffering from!
If you're going to insult me, do it like you mean it, instead of couching it in such eunuchoid phrases.
If you're not going to insult me, just answer the question. It was a simple one, after all.
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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admin
Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,634

jumping in



GM,

You are suffering from the ravages of sin. Period. We all are. However, Jesus Christ has shown us the way of truth to get us out of the predicament of punishment for our own sins upon our own souls. It depends upon how one answers Jesus' question:

"Who do you say that I am?"

And once you determine the answer to that question, it depends on whether or not you believe Jesus's claim:

"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me."

Once you agree (or disagree) with Jesus' proclamation, then you choose your destiny for all eternity.

You are suffering from eternal separation from God. It is what all men and women suffer from, until they become born again in Christ (see John 3).

So you see, GM, it doesn't really matter what Sothenes or I, or any other Christian "thinks" brought you towards your atheism/skepticism/rejection of Christ and God's Word, etc. What matters is whether or not you will continue to reject the only Savior who can heal you and be the bridge back for you - unto God the Father.
__________________
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9

*******

GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,089

We've been here before, hostess, but I'll say it again.

Quote:
It depends upon how one answers Jesus' question:

"Who do you say that I am?"

A wise man? So it is said.
An extraordinary teacher? So I've been told.
The Son of God? I don't believe it.

Quote:
And once you determine the answer to that question, it depends on whether or not you believe Jesus's claim:

"I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me."

Okay: I don't. Because those words mean that the story of Ezekiel is just a story; and if Ezekiel is true, then Jesus' words are not. Christers have to believe both. I don't have that dilemma.

Quote:
Once you agree (or disagree) with Jesus' proclamation, then you choose your destiny for all eternity.

"Who do you say that I am?" isn't a proclamation, just a question. And in the stories built around that question, Jesus proclaimed nothing; in fact, he advised his followers to also not proclaim anything.
Except for the past few decades, I have no idea where I spent eternity. I have no memories of it. I fully expect it to be the same a few decades from now.

Quote:
You are suffering from eternal separation from God. It is what all men and women suffer from, until they become born again in Christ (see John 3).

There are Buddhist and Muslim and Jewish and Hindu believers who'd claim the same about you. I'm no more impressed by that statement than they are—less, in fact.

Quote:
So you see, GM, it doesn't really matter what Sothenes or I, or any other Christian "thinks" brought you towards your atheism/skepticism/rejection of Christ and God's Word, etc. What matters is whether or not you will continue to reject the only Savior who can heal you and be the bridge back for you - unto God the Father.

You could have stopped after “thinks”. Because it's not only Christ and God's Word I reject; it's the 'etc' as well—the Buddhist and Muslim and Jewish and Hindu 'words'. All equally fanciful, all contradictory, all citing a false authority.

See you next year, when you bring this up again.
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"

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admin
Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,634

We have been here - many times.



You have made your position very clear, GM. But for the purpose of telling you why it doesn't matter what Sothenes and I (or other Christians) think led to your atheism/skepticism/non-belief/hatred for the God of the Bible/non-belief in Christ's deity, I wrote what I wrote here in this thread.

You have your reasons for non-belief. I have my reasons for steadfast belief in the Truth that Jesus Christ reveals.

Sometimes, a devotional becomes a better tool to share why I personally believe as I do:

Quote:
Daily Light on the Daily Path Devotional
Monday March 8, 2010
http://bible.christiansunite.com/devotionals.shtml


Evening

I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able.

Able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think.

Able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may abound to every good work.

Able to succour them that are tempted.

Able . . . to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the
presence of his glory with exceeding joy.

Able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Believe ye that I am able to do this? . . . According to your faith be it unto you.

2Ti 1:12 Eph 3:20 2Co 9:8 Heb 2:18 7:25 Jude 1:24 2Ti 1:12 Php 3:21 Mt 9:28,29

__________________
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Colossians 2:8

The eyes of the Lord move to and fro throughout the earth to show Himself strong to those whose hearts are fully committed to Him. 2 Chronicles 16:9

***************************************************************************

Hat Tips to all links.

Special Hat Tip to Sothenes who shared Don Carson's Youtube video which started this conversation.

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Update @ 11:31 a.m. PT:

The Pilot is on a roll!

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GMpilot
Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: here and now
Posts: 1,090

Okay, so here we go again

Quote:
...for the purpose of telling you why it doesn't matter...I wrote what I wrote here in this thread.

And I wrote to tell you why I don't agree with that. Whatever happened to an "agree to disagree" standoff?

Quote:
You have your reasons for non-belief.

Exactly.

Quote:
I have my reasons for steadfast belief in the Truth that Jesus Christ reveals.

Fine. I have my reasons to think that the 'Truth' wasn't revealed only by him.

That's all I'm sayin'. But you have to go put all that “atheism/skepticism/non-belief/hatred for the God of the Bible/non-belief in Christ's deity” on it. Because I don't believe in something, I automatically hate it? C'mon! I don't believe in Scientology either, and I laugh at such beliefs!
Are you ticked because you believe I'm laughing at yours?
__________________
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration--courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth." --H L Mencken

"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say yes." --"Ghostbusters"